Friday, January 13, at the Moscow house of cinema at the ceremony of summing up kinogoda Guild of film critics of Russia called the event of the year, two of the film by Vitaly Mansky “In the sun” and “Native”. The first issue deals with life in North Korea, the second — the events in Eastern Ukraine.
The look of a documentary filmmaker and researcher, born in Lviv, and professionally held in Moscow and now moved to Riga, is interesting not only from the point of view of cinema. The war in Europe affected each of us. Vitaly Mansky talks to a journalist Olgert of Titans.
Delfi: In Riga you showed your last picture Native. A couple of years ago, starting to shoot “most personal” film, you said that with your heroes will try to “understand what is happening”. And how’s that managed?
Vitaly Mansky: Yes, I was able to understand and confirm my idea about this problem. The bottom line is that the problem is fundamental, it is the root. That is, it is not the result of something external, in this case Russian propaganda. Propaganda certainly played a role, but that’s the cynicism of this propaganda, and the certain success that it was based on an existing conflict, fueled long-existing contradictions within the Ukrainian state.
The Ukrainian state for centuries was between two poles — between the Russian Empire and the European civilization; naturally those areas that were closer to the Russian Empire was more Russified more susceptible to the influence of ideology and lifestyle. If you look at the voting results in modern independent Ukraine, they are divided Ukraine exactly in half: one vote for the so-called strong executives, whether Kuchma or Yanukovych, but the others voted for democracy. Therefore, this conflict really took place, and my family, the investigation only confirmed these feelings. And, in the context of war, of fear.
— The juxtaposition of East and West Ukraine is not new. How do you see the way out? Is it possible to solve the conflict or gap between East and West Ukraine will still grow?
— It seems to me that the war, on the one hand, this conflict is exacerbated, on the other hand, left no choice for Ukraine. Of course, now her, including the Eastern territories, you need to go and ways of overcoming these contradictions, in the European way of development. The only other possibility is the division of Ukraine, which, as I think it is impossible.
My feeling after visiting the Donetsk region down to the fact that people who voted for secession from Ukraine, vote still not over the consequences that followed their vote. They now want to save some preferences, but still in a United Ukraine. Except full of thugs. I’m talking about the General mood.
The war proved to be consolidated in Ukraine, raised in the Ukraine Patriotic sentiments. One word: either split the country, which is unlikely, or still consolidation and forward movement in the European community.
— A few years ago, talking about Sentsov (Ukrainian Director Oleg Sentsov, 2015 has been sentenced by a Russian court to 20 years in prison for terrorist activities; Sentsov considers the case fabricated and political — approx. ed.) said that his fate “directly depends on who wins the war between our peoples.” It really is the people fighting with people?
— On the one hand, would be well to answer, Yes, of course, people do not fight, fight the policy, but to be honest, it is a departure from the answer. Politics, they certainly provoke, but people accept this provocation. The people at the hands of this provocation is. In this case, in the South-East of Ukraine, in addition to the military who went there on the orders, a considerable number of volunteers, and it is an absolute fact. They are ready to kill and die for, as they imagine, some independence of the Eastern territories from Ukraine. As they imagine, on some kind of war against the emerging Nazism and not fascism in Ukraine. In a confrontation threatening the Russian nation location of NATO bases on their borders.
I repeat, the people were ready not just to write something on Facebook, and take up arms, to sit in the trenches. To put his life in danger. It is their ideology and this, of course, representatives of the people.
Politicians have done the worst: they inflamed the people of the basest, darkest side and pushed people. After all, Ukraine is also forced with arms to fight and reclaim their territory. When there is a war, neither of which democracy or any human rights to speak of. When you open fire from heavy weapons, the consequences are obvious. And there really is a bloody war.
The only thing I can say now that such a pitch, as was in the first year, no. Russia, I think, took the decision of how trading and, of course, trying to get some preferences, after all, to withdraw from these territories.
— You are talking about the fault of politicians — the same applies to the Ukrainian and Russian politicians?
— I think some fault on Ukrainian politicians also lies. And I would have thought that this simplification of the problem, if you put some of the blame on politicians of the previous Ukraine. I think, after the Maidan victory of the opposition, drugged atmosphere of victory and of some excessive optimism, should have been more sober, more responsible, more careful. I think that the decree on the status of the Russian language, which functioned temporarily, there has played a very negative role.
In Donbass many people who lived in these areas and the native spoke the Russian language. It is clear that they did not vote for the war. But they, fearing that they will be forced to immediately move into Ukrainian, voted in a referendum and supported the forces, who used their voices for the deployment of military action. Therefore, politicians should always be careful, the responsibility is very great.
Here I would not want to accuse Ukraine in a situation when she is the absolute victim of aggression. But in every war there’s a history there, and in the background there are errors of both sides. I believe that Ukraine is also a mistake that partly contributed to this situation.
— Returning to the outcome of the war between the two Nations — what needs to happen so you can say that Ukraine will win? The Capture Of Moscow?
— No, in any case. The capture of Moscow never to nothing lead and never lead to nothing. Only the inner awareness and acceptance of the Russian people, its not imposed from the outside to choose their future path that is for its organic, proper and desirable, something can change. So that Russian people made their choice in 1991, when not made of the emergency Committee, confirmed the freedom of the Baltic States.
And the choice depends on many things,- of course, Russian people will watch the Ukraine — what happened to the country that went contrary to the Russian will. How there will be comfortable as people will be socially protected, modern Economics, etc. in a word, the victory of Ukraine can be found only in the well-being of Ukraine. Not the war with Russia, and in his own well-being. If the Russians say, there, I don’t know about the German experience, it does not work anymore historical memory: some 1945, a history book, a nearby page with Ancient Rome. But Ukraine is today, the pressing, the clear. Ukraine, if it wants to win should simply be a prosperous country.
— Obviously, this will not happen tomorrow or the day after. And the Russians meanwhile, the vote for Putin.
Yes. On the one hand, in criminal practice, alcohol does not remove the responsibility from the person. But, on the other hand, we all understand that people in this state are inadequate. In this case, the Russians could be said about people who exist in a kind of intoxication from handling their consciousness of the ideological machine. And I think here it is important to talk about how to bring people out of this state. And when they are withdrawn, I am convinced that in sound mind and memory Russian people will not vote for the war, when their state of life nor in a penny does not put. When their government steals from them, aprovincial their wages, depriving them of pensions, rights and freedoms, decent living. Sober mind, it is impossible to vote for such a power. But, being drunk, can be anything.
— However, we are now seeing the opposite trend. For example, Russian society, being well aware of the millions of victims of Stalin’s terror, not really resisting the installation of monuments to Stalin, creeping to restore his “good name”…
— Yes, it is. Inoculation of freedom were insufficient. I’ll give an example from the animal world, it is absolutely not comparing. Just as the image of: circus lion walking on its hind legs and doesn’t know how strong he is. But if he, God forbid, smell of blood, old back understanding who he is.
Russian people still had the experience, albeit short experience of freedom. The spring will be compressed, but at some point it will be straightened. I hope so, but I do not wish, it would to some, be careful for example, conflict situations within the country. The principle can be…
And the civil war?
— Yes, unfortunately, this can be.
Are you talking about the throat of freedom that felt in Russian society. However, I felt it a few. Intellectuals, who are now scattered around the world…
— So, not so. Because intellectuals felt the full scope of freedom, and now she does not agree with the government that encroaches on the freedom that we were holding. But if we’re not talking about quite the Outback, where the road is not conducted where there is no gas, if to speak about Russian cities, and in Russia most of the population lives in cities — and if to speak even about the regional centers, we see that the people there go on imported cars, and the closing of country naturally leads to the impossibility to change some details. I want the grass-roots level to translate this problem. Even in the provincial cities, people are used to their salary enough to travel to Turkey. And now it has already become difficult. So that people still felt something.
— Blame the Americans…
— Americans are always to blame. But it is in a state of intoxication. But a sober assessment of the situation is very difficult to understand who is to blame for what you’ve become worse.
— In your recent painting “Native” you are somehow surprised that people who have a common native Russian language, hold the opposite political views. But what is there to wonder the civil war was in many countries, Russia including?
— This is true. It’s not just a question of language. In the case of Ukraine you have to understand that Ukraine is a separate independent state. Ukraine has its own national language, and in this case, language plays an important role. Yes, of course, is in Ukraine, many Russian-speaking Ukrainians, who are in arms to defend the independence of Ukraine who are dying for Ukraine, saying the last words of the Russian language. It was in Donetsk airport and everywhere.
But still, I think the language, anthem, flag symbols, unifying and guiding the nation. So either Ukraine should unite around these symbols, or it will coalesce around symbols of other States. You need to understand that the separatists in Donetsk fighting on the Russian language, fighting under the Russian flags and the Russian anthem. In moments of relaxation, in some convivial moments they were listening to Soviet music. In this sense, Soviet music, Soviet culture is also a certain sign of which side and what ideals are you willing to die.
This does not mean that we will have to ban songs performed by Kobzon. But the fact that Kobzon, wittingly or unwittingly, brings not only musical creativity, but also a certain ideology is quite obvious.
I was 9th of may in the center of the separatist resistance in Donetsk Zakharchenko, the so-called leader of the so-called Donetsk people’s Republic, gave speeches, where he said: “I promise you that the Nazis will never trample our land”. Clearly, not even hinting, to match Nazi Germany and modern Ukraine. He promised the people at the rally, the Ukrainians will never come to this earth. And it all happened under songs Kobzon, from the speaker. And these songs would promyshlyali this atmosphere, doing this emotional atmosphere, the natural, once set up all on a single footing.
There’s no one singing “Reve TA Stogniy DNP wide”
— There was no one to sing…
Yeah, no one. We must understand that culture is a carrier of ideology, whether we like it or not.
— Some Ukrainian politicians considered the political implications in the choice between “Ukraine” and “Ukraine”. Your comment, please!
— I will say this: I was born in Ukraine. Now I say “the Ukraine” does not exist, only “in Ukraine”. In principle I am ready to accept this for me is absolutely essential. But if I say naturally, not controlling my speech, I say “the Ukraine”. If I control’t censor, of course, I say “in”. Here the Ukrainians have to understand what they want me to listen to natural speaking or controlling their speech. I can be such and such. Moreover, I increasingly turn to “in Ukraine”.
If the use of “the Ukraine” offends someone, I’m not going to use it. If the Russians do not want to offend Ukrainians, they should go to. And if someone is “on” uses emphasized, it is also about saying something. If this is done deliberately, nothing good about it.