The volunteer Roman Donik is the fourth year helps the Ukrainian military and landfills, and in the area of ATO. In the second part of an interview with “Apostrophe” he said, why the ban on Russian social networking, in his opinion, it is good, and the idea is to provide the volunteers the status of combatants — it is bad, how did the Ukrainians for three years of the war and why the occupied Crimea have died for Vladimir Putin.
The first part of the interview is available here: Putin has deployed troops for a reason, there are options of a major war with Ukraine — the volunteer Roman Donik.
We’ve recently “teeth” showed new sanctions against Russia entered. What do you think the ban on Russian social networks really needed? After all, there were many statements that this — the attack on the rights and freedoms of Ukrainians that there is no collection of information the FSB about our citizens through these resources and could not be…
— Actually, I could. But it is not even that. The fact that now is the logical conclusion of what we have lasts past 500 years. We were under occupation for all these centuries. And now really is the time when you have to vomit — because it’s all too integrated. All these “Vkontaktiki”, “Yandex”, all these things that we have with the Russians alone for two… Like Siamese twins with one body and two heads. One head — Ukraine, the other Russian. And blood vessels between them is the same. It’s not normal.
Plus, these sanctions because they are tangible losses brought, they really suffer economically. In addition, these sanctions are aimed not so much at those who sits there now, because the fans of “Vkontakte” will continue to go there, not going anywhere. But the youth there have to be, the younger generation.
Well you see, we’re a very long time I felt. We had no understanding, it seemed to us that it’s all over. And in fact, during these three years we have grown a generation. Imagine, at the beginning of the war we were children 9-13 years, which the social network was not particularly interesting. Now they are 12-16. We have a new generation which in the conditions of war still does not perceive Russia as the aggressor. It does not see the difference. It’s still integrated.
So it is necessary to do by far. And then the question is not whether I will go or not. There I never any of the conversations did not lead, for that matter. The main problem in a new audience, children, adolescents.
But they’ll find a way to circumvent the ban if you want.
Even if they will be able to go there, there will not be the audience that was before. There is no such mass. Before the child came into this social network, but there is a whole world. It was interesting, there he sat. And now for him it will also be something to change.
Oh, and another plus is the economic. They are very hard to put the market of Internet advertising in Ukraine. That is now Ukr.net, Bigmir, “Meta”? They just crushed the dumping had stopped. Now new prospects.
In short, it had to be done. Definitely. Another issue is that we people mostly do not understand. Well, it’s hard to close your personal “Lipetsk factory”. In General, thank God that it did right now. By the way, we now find ourselves in the “Dali bude”. We’ve been waiting for. And now there was something — I really don’t know what…
— Someone connects it with bezveza…
Yes. And not only. This election in France, this election in USA… now there was something, with the result that we got the OK to behave like this. It’s like a snowball: one, two, three. And, in fact, we ourselves now are quite rude towards Russia. So I think that this is not the end. This is just the beginning. So do enlisted support. This support was promised long ago — and now she finally has.
— That in the minds of most of the “no war”, strongly affects how difficult it is to raise money for the needs of the Ukrainian military? Or who supported — and continues to do so?
Yes. Already there are people who have determined that doing so-and-so. We each person contributed what they could make. They can help through different volunteers. They can help with different purpose. But, in principle, this circle of people has already formed. These are the people who consistently help because help is needed and will help to win.
— If we’re talking about volunteers, not long ago, a scandal broke out around the initiative of people’s Deputy Andrey Denisenko to grant the status of combatants volunteers who go to the front. Volunteers this initiative was met with indignation. Why? Where will this lead, if he manages to push his bill?
— This will lead to a huge injustice. In the good, the combatants — those who fought, those who shoot, those who have been life-threatening. But, it turns out, a lot of those who own crust LPP, not put his life on the slightest danger. And if now to add more here civil?
Well, well. Volunteers. What is a volunteer? There are women volunteers who knit socks. There are women volunteers who dried borscht. There are women volunteers who mesh weaving. Someone cared for the wounded. Someone else was doing something. There are people who are living abroad and out for the military machine driven. It’s all volunteers. And that is all the combatants, or what?
In fact, it’s the Deputy from “Dill”. Can’t end in anything good that started with the stolen idea. They’re Chevron “Dill” was stolen. It has been sown with rotten — so there is this stuff constantly comes out.
I don’t know why he does it. Personally, I’m generally very tough for volunteers who appeared after 2015.
Why? Type jumped into the last car?
Yes. They appeared in 2016, and still appear. I understand that this is probably wrong. But I just can’t help myself. For me the real volunteers — those people who are in the same Kharkiv started to volunteer more in 2014, when it was really scary. Who really risked. All the others who abruptly rushed, especially after the first wave of awards to the workers. A lot of workers.
Volunteers who started in 2014, LPP is not necessary. At that time, volunteers have become the bulk of people are self-sufficient. Those who have had their own business, some of his tools. Random people did not exist. It is only later volunteers started to become conductors of minibuses, the retailers in the market…
So the initiative Denisenko feel stupid. Absolutely wild corruption there will be in any case. But most importantly — this is simply not to do. In 2014 people did what simply could not do. They could no longer sit still, to stay away. And then there was the category of people who climbed over the buns. Someone leaned in volunteers before the election. Someone — because it’s cool, “green light” everywhere, the door to the legs can open almost any office… But this is a little different.
This might be Denisenko this nonsense someone have advised. Said, it would be cool — they risked life. Yes, risk. Life we’re all at risk. We pass on the street — and risk. But what is the difference from the guys there at the front? Even in the toughest moments, when it was the worst of the collision, they were following orders. They died but did not leave. The same debaltseve — the guys stood up to the last. And in the Donetsk airport they stood to the last. That’s as much as I could — so many stood. And here’s the UBD and UBD of a person, which is something it brought to the front, even if a hundred meters away fell some Mina is incommensurable things!
— Of course! In any case, Denisenko in your Facebook immediately removed in full. First of all, from the volunteers themselves, who, it seems, absolutely unanimously outraged by this idea. But the MP insisted that the bill is to be adopted — whether that volunteers themselves…
The problem is that this consensus may not be so complete. I’ve seen comments when volunteers say: “Wait, this is the man who just resented the idea Denisenko, previously played for the volunteers was given LPP”. Volunteers — it is the same cut of society. Definitely not to say that all volunteers against UBD. The views of all we just don’t know.
Secondly, we just sadikovac themes 50-100 people that in 2014 in the subject line. They are just all in the mind, at the hearing, they are all ideological. They are independent. They are self-sufficient. They and in 2014 was self-sufficient. These people had a business or something, that is, they could afford to buy the land. For them it is not an end in itself. The reason they say so here.
But somewhere sits a lot of people who think differently. Another “mobilization” of volunteers happened just after I raised the issue that volunteers will be given LPP. Then began a military tourism. In General, a stupid idea.
— Other reviews Denisenko advised is such nonsense to attend to better writing a bill that would have removed the “leveling” in the status of those who, say, fought in the first and second lines. In this direction of any movements of our legislators did not take?
— No. Let’s start with the fact that we now have volunteers who have the status of war participant. This is the official status. We have chaplains who have the status of war participant. This is an official trip, figuratively speaking, you come to the ATC in Kiev, you get a piece of paper that you’re going on a business trip to provide some assistance (e.g., psychological). You work a certain number of days, then mark that out — and return home. I don’t remember, 30 or 40 days to accumulate, and then you are eligible to apply and to get a crust “party of war”.
— I meant that the identity of UBD is not specified, you fought in the town in industrial area or in Kramatorsk all the time spent.
Yes. We have no differentiation. This question has long been raised. Because there are lots of people that never even shot. There are people who have no idea what fire. There are people who on posts in the rear served… so that there is at checkpoints — Raisin, until recently, was considered the ATO area! How many people of UBD have received!.. Yes, indeed, it would be better done.
Another question — they can’t take (the status of the participant of military actions, “Apostrophe”). The only thing you can do is to come up with something new. That is, these are all privileges we all take, the crust of UBD to write and come up with a new name, a new status. For example, “a participant of the war for independence.” And to give those who really deserve it. This is the only option.
— But this is unrealistic, given that, as you once said, still even reward all who are worthy can’t…
I know this catch up started. Quietly. He shall not, and the officers, thank God. I hope I will reach the ranks. Now with awards, OK. Although state awards draw, of course, saving…
I think that even if you accept this law, which Denisenko pushing — President zavetiruet. Among other things, there is more money. Colossal.
— And if afraid? Do not want to alienate those volunteers who may want to obtain this status?
— No, I am not afraid. That is, the leaders of public opinion. There are among the volunteers. You everything to relate to people, anywhere we can quarrel, we can dislike each other, but there are certain things that are the same for all. It happened with the initiative of prof. Yes, maybe someone agreed to it by force, maybe someone would like some Urichuck to have. But once everyone stood up, I abruptly stand up. Possible. But now there is a unanimous decision — at least from the first waves of volunteers — they clearly appreciate it all. And the rest like it or not like it, but there is sort of some sort of hazing in the volunteer movement. And these volunteers are still sadikovac a little bit.
I think the President will not do the reconciliation, how it will react to some completely strange people who call themselves volunteers, because they took something two sacks of potatoes… The same Biryukov communicates with everyone. So, I think, problems will not be. The attempt was, but Facebook is not the whole Ukraine.
A bit of a silly question… do you have a sense of how much more the war will last, and when does it exclusively through diplomacy, or will you need a military sweep of those territories?
— No. Feelings do not have any. And there is no understanding. I have the feeling that we are now in some kind of clinch. It is clear that these territories are no one will not give. If extremely cynical to argue, from the point of view of, say, the Ukrainian state — is what happens sooner or later had to happen. In particular, the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. And in any case would be any riots…
— Why is that?
— See, England got rid of mines painful, but a very long time. We have all received generally terrible some form. We have two regions are largely lived on subsidies.
And believed that fed all the others…
— It is not even that. What they inflated ego, Yes. But in General the fact: if the whole industry is subsidized, sooner or later it would have had to say goodbye. And sooner or later I got to the question, what to do, what to do, where are these people to do, how to adapt, and so on.
And now — Yes, it is hard, painful, cynical — exactly the time when there is this inevitable process. There is a clear understanding: of Donbass, which was never to be. Even if you come here investors. Investors will not invest in unprofitable mines. Of Donbass, which remember, will never be.
And we also on hand. In England, when they “parted” with its mines, the process was painful and was accompanied by mass riots. It was in a different form — but it was! And had it not been for the war, who knows how this process took place in us?
Here is another question: what to do with those people who had “different”? In fact, a lot of them there. And even those teachers who taught in schools in the occupied territories these three years and all this time, show the children pictures of the “Motorola” and “Zakharchenko”, — it’s also not very good!
I don’t know how and when to end what is happening now in the Donbas. Probably, it will not be easy. Where to go will be these people, I don’t know. I would like to have them do took right to vote. Ideally — and is deported to Russia or somewhere else. But I understand that nobody will do. Europe will choke us…
In General, it’s too thankless task — to think. But who would have thought four years ago that we are waiting for.
I’m trying to remember when I have gone the feeling that this, here, here, and over… And can’t. Here was this feeling that in a couple of weeks, maybe a month, it’s all over — and then it disappeared somewhere…
— Probably, after Ilovaysk ended.
Yes… To Ilovaysk still had some illusions. But when in Ilovaysk came — I realized that just because we no finish it will not. Summer 2014 proves a lot…
— And if still posiadajacy? For example, what will happen to the Crimea?
— With The Crimea? There is just simply all.
Yes. If you take in General. Imagine a living organism. He was sick. He’s got a fever he has a fever, he feels really bad, he has a dry mouth, dehydration… But at the same time all the malicious muck and germs are killed.
In principle, the same thing is happening with Crimea. Was there a million and a half of quilted jackets, which we never could do. Because they were actually citizens of Ukraine, and in fact, a significant part of them is a retired Russian military, the part of the children of these military, they were focused solely on Russia. And now, after such a painful process, we get rid of them.
Yes, for me personally, for example, is the problem — I will not go there anymore. But if they go, in a very distant future. But across the state, in the historical scale of 50-60 years — it’s all garbage issue. The Russian Empire for many years. And we are struggling with it, too good half a Millennium. But now there will be over fresh water, happily they will run and will be there to see it all back. And again to turn the water on again, everything will be fine. The only difference is that this one gnidnik, a hotbed of rushmanova there somewhere chuhnet.
© RIA Novosti, Sergei Maligawa | go to fotosexverhalen at the unveiling of the “Polite people”
In the case of Crimea, the blockade is a good thing, right?
— And in the case of the Donbas — cost to set up the blockade? To block the railway, to turn off the light in the Luhansk region?..
— See, the light is not the biggest problem. But water is water, after all. The Crimea is different. In the Donbas are the blockade that the redoubts were configuring, made only of that separable wring out of businesses that are now cut on metal. And that’s all.
— What do you think would have the initiators of the bill? The authorities promised that will force some politicians to compensate for the budget losses due to the blockade…
— I think then there will be the distribution of elephants. Well, once over time. Because so many things are still unclear. Motivation is not as clear as that, and what was done. And the Crimea… you Know what’s good in the case of Crimea? That for Putin, he died. Crimea it is not interesting.
— How a child grabbed a toy, played and dumped?
Yes. It is, in principle, squeezed the maximum from this thread. “The return of the native Russian land”, it’s all the same… Now he is not interested. And whining here those millions of Crimeans, who will be without water, he, by and large, to spit.
— “You stay there”?
Yes. But as an excuse to punch a corridor to try to penetrate by land (the Crimea through the territory of Ukraine, “Apostrophe”) — Yes. The probability is this. It will not go away. We still ride and teach these gunners — and, as I understand it, no end in sight. At any moment, everything can change.
— You say, we have volunteers to go and teach the gunners. Why still this is happening? Is in the fourth year of the war the training system in the army so bad?
— You know, we have a failure. We have a bottom soldier who wants to learn. There at the top of the head of the General staff, the commander of a division or educational center. And between him and the soldier — the abyss. Too much between them remained the people who had been before the war. For them nothing has changed. They are serving their calendars until retirement. And that’s all. Moreover, even now, and the opposite happened. A lot of people who were dismissed from the army, now came to the contract, because wages rose. There is a problem.
— So what comes out? For positive changes in the army again need to mobilize? To come people from outside who are not afraid to talk about problems…
— Now the problem is a little bit different order. What’s the difference? Then were really the problem, because there was no money, no management, there was nothing. Now the problem is imperfect legislation that no one is going to change. We have to dismiss the impossible! The villain, a man who does not work, it is simply impossible to dismiss.
— A contractor is simple, “avatar”, for example?
— “Avatar” — Yes. But to dismiss “avatar” should be a lot of investigations to carry out. And through the court to dismiss. It is not so simple.
— It is easier to tolerate?
— Well, why not? They periodically fired. But this is a special procedure. They are protected. And if UBD he has some awards — it’s all the whole thing.
— And what happens? If the middle link is impossible to dismiss…
— How to fire? They are restored by the courts. Here they are now trying to rasterbate to new to give the opportunity to come in and do something, shove them to the slightest bit of harm from them was less. Them where it is necessary to put. We can’t take — and 50-100 thousand people just throw out.
Well, Saakashvili turned out? When he almost simultaneously fired all of the police…
— Well, maybe. But the police in Georgia and the army in the warring Ukraine is a slightly different things. The problem in the army is very specific. There is a set of knowledge that a civilian even seven spans in a forehead will not be won over just like that. You can’t come and suddenly become an experienced soldier. In any case, in addition to technical aspects, there are knowledge management troops. And it is necessary.
Like most military, which the ladder passed from the commander of platoon, company and next. Because they’re gradually accumulating, they know fully the whole mechanism. Not only how it works, but how it should work, where it can break, how to fix it and everything else.
Yes, we may have 10-15 people who are absolutely brilliant, absolutely talented, and that — again — and a month later I was able. But the problem is that, firstly, these people are already busy with something. And even if hypothetically to imagine that they can — they generally go in today’s army? They won’t go there. The army we have, whether we like it or not, still offers starvation wages. $ 500 is really very little.
— In a poor country, it is good that at least until the size has increased.
— I understand. But we all selective memory. We remember something not remember. We forget that there is a war, but remember the dollar is at 8. A poor country? Not the fact that such a beggar. Look around.
— Ukrainians of 2013 and Ukrainians in 2017 — what is the key difference between them? We have some achievements?
— It’s hard for me to judge. It’s really hard. We’ve all takamalirawo. I communicate with those Ukrainians who look at life much the same as I do. And this gradually leads to the fact that you begin to believe that everything they think about the same. For me, 2014 was a big revelation when in Kharkov was held in the Verkhovna Rada the opposition bloc… For me it really was a shock.
I don’t know how did the Ukrainians. We’re not aware of the entire picture. We see the army. Army — 100% changed. The Ministry of defence has changed. The police? Yeah, may have changed. The Prosecutor’s office? This Grand operation to arrest corruption (large-scale operation on detention of the tax associated with the former Minister of revenues and duties Oleksandr Klymenko — “Apostrophe”) showed, that Yes, has changed. Something is changing.
Well you understand, there is not a single person who lived completely honest and according to the law. Here it simply does not exist! We have all of the power for 25 years makes people accomplices. Someone did turn off the electricity to lower bills for electricity. Someone somewhere was stealing. Someone for something did not pay. Somebody was cheating with subsidies… And in the end it turns out that we have not even a single person who could say, that I never broke. And while we lived comfortably, it is, in principle, all arranged. And now — again — and everyone needs to get out of the comfort zone. Well this is also a big problem. And out of the comfort zone, as shown by us recently “Vkontakte,” it is very painful.
Very little time has passed. Though people changed, of course. Changed. Let’s really look at things. Remember how in 2013, you could see people in embroidery? Ukrainian flags? We have changed. We just don’t notice because we are in the process. If we could focus the mind — I think would see a lot of interesting. I can’t imagine that singing the national anthem in 2013. But who is it actually singing?
— What do you think, do the Ukrainian people have the wisdom not to react to provocations and during the war did not succumb to repeated calls to overthrow someone, to organize the Maidan, to unfold and to go with weapons to Kiev?
— We now have fever. And fever we will have a few years. We still hold the personalities. Poroshenko is happiness for Ukraine. I’m a fatalist in the long run. And I am sincerely convinced that there are no coincidences. Muzhenko, Poroshenko and Poltorak — these people were just in the right time in the right place. It was supposed to be. But. Somewhere recently I saw a very good expression that we have people who tried to use the revolution as a social Elevator.
— Sometimes very successfully, by the way.
Yes. But some of this lift has brought to the wrong floor, which they killed. And they start to press all the buttons without thinking about the consequences and about what will happen with that Elevator. We have many such people who was shot flew out, they are hearing, they know… But they are not satisfied with where they are made. They want something different. And they start to press those buttons without thinking about the consequences. Here the question is not of wisdom. It is pure scumaci.
— It turns out, the number of those who have missed the floor?
Yes. Besides, we have formed some new caste of professional protesters. They live on it. And it must also be understood. But what is our advantage? Paradoxically — that people are tired. Well, in that we are still a bit lazy. Of course, it’s good in this case.