The head of the Donetsk HAV Pavel Zhebrivsky in interview to TV channel “112 Ukraine” said about how Russia is helping the militants in the Donbas, why not wants to lead the state Bureau of investigation and the chief mistakes of the past year.
112.ua: events of the year discussed with the head of the Donetsk regional state administration Pavlo Zhebrivskyi. Good evening, Pavel Ivanovich. What were linked the recent exacerbation at the front in December?
Pavel Zhebrivsky: the Territory, which killed the Ukrainian military, according to the Minsk agreement, belongs to Ukraine. Unfortunately, nobody is going to the area to release. There’s a huge problem. Our guys came on the turn, and the separatists, Russian mercenaries fired from 152-mm artillery. Even bulletproof vests and helmets saved — of the first five dead, two wounded actually in the chest, perforating the armour, and two died from wounds in the head, broke the helmet. There are many dead and many wounded. Very much shell-shocked. According to the American classification, if 50 m exploded a mine or a grenade, the person, in principle, considered to be shell-shocked, and it is subject to rehabilitation. There were guys who went into the army from the “Right sector” (banned in Russia organization — approx. ed.), legalized in the APU and got there in such a serious situation.
— But after all Minsk arrangements say that now must be adhered to “silent mode”.
— On today’s tax day in the so-called “LNR”, “DNR” not enough to swear by. According to my estimates, Russia are costing the territory around $ 3 billion. a year. Seniors take quite a lot. It is clear that very many stolen as local officials and those Russians who sit on these financial flows. And that is when decreases the amount of financial resources, then, of course, you need to show aggravation. The second reason can be a “war” between them for the flow of coal, other things and the redistribution of economic belongings. Basically, after all, is an economic factor, for different reasons.
— How long have you been in the Donetsk region?
— A year and a half.
— According to your observations, what’s going on in the minds of people? What are their moods?
Today Kramatorsk, Liman, Slavyansk and other cities is the city of peace, the rear, where it has long not shoot, and people live a normal life, and they are concerned about the same problems as the average Ukrainian. It is clear that there are many of them who regrets what happened all of these things. With regard to the demarcation line, when the fire — they hate everyone. They’re on the brink of survival, a matter of life and death. And there are many people who, in principle, do not respond anyone. Although in Marinka and Krasnogorovka, and a lot of people who all clearly understand, and ask that they are not abandoned, not given. Have a question, what part of the military, is in a particular locality. If the brigade commander, battalion commander understand the behavior of the military depend on the mood of the people, the situation is changing. If somebody “separable rascals”, and then get such sentiments.
— Military and someone explains that they are the authorized representatives of the government and their behavior depends on how you will relate to Ukraine?
— A lot depends on the commander of the ATO. I personally say, because every Monday I have a meeting with law enforcement and with representatives of the APU. We focus, every Monday it’s discussing the direction of this issue. Now the situation is slightly better because more contractors. To mobilize those who volunteered, as I in 2014, famously fought. Those who went on the call of the soul. And the one who mobilized the not quite natural way, it is clear that drunkenness, and “avatar” were many. Today, since this is a contract, and the more serious the selection is the situation much better.
— Do you consider yourself a military head of state administration or civil?
— I think I’m more civil but required the prefix “war”, because today there is coordination of law enforcement and military units. Those who experienced the fire “Grad”, mortars — they are my cousins.
— Is it true that occupied part of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are two completely different worlds?
— In the Donbass has always been more order and Donetsk region has always been a draft horse, including for the Luhansk region. In Luhansk region the so-called “Komsomol”, one of whom is now under arrest and awaiting trial, sawed just everything. In fact, normal operating plants, even in Lugansk there. In Donetsk, the people without the need not go into the street. Mine stopped, flood, jobs cut, and worse and worse. And most importantly, that everyone is afraid of — “knock” in full. The 37th year of rest. In principle, it is lawlessness because the court itself is not, there is no police. People just survive — they are like the snail, hid in the shell and do not protrude. The biggest problem I think is children and the work of so-called teachers with children. I really think after we clear this area, as will efforts to ensure that the brains of children were in place?
— How did it happen that such nobodies like Plotnitsky, Zakharchenko, was able to seize and hold power? Why did we do this?
— And we didn’t do anything. In 2005-2006 I was a critic of Yushchenko and said that in fact the Ukrainian authorities was not there. I was told that there are in serious need of Ukrainians to send, which, in fact, introduced to the Ukrainian territory in the Donetsk region. There is, by and large, they somehow understood, but Ukraine was not. They hammered into their heads that they are separate “Donbas” people. Talking about me, what I call the “Donbass” and “Donbass”. But you have to know the story: the Donbass — is not only Donetsk, Luhansk, and Rostopshina, and many other things. People in the Donetsk region are searching for their identity. The government does not hold a Carpenter or Zakharchenko — the power was held there, the FSB, the GRU, and this clown, with no moral constraints, in fact, the puppets that are easy to cover their private parts. Themselves Plotnitsky and Zakharchenko are unable to build any system of control — and I’m not talking about finances. They are more than three people have never mastered. Ukraine, as such, there is, to put it mildly, and did not smell. And my main goal there is to enter the Donbass region in Ukrainian a single space. To: “not me, dumbasses, and I am Ukrainian from Donbass”! Yes, we should be proud of the Donetsk land, but the primary Ukraine. Infrastructure, schools, culture, information politics, sports are means to achieve the key goal — the introduction of the Donetsk region one Ukrainian space.
— Did not show whether the government, intelligence agencies in early 2014 criminal weakness and unwillingness?
— I think in March-April not had the will, strong-willed people.
— Who told you to leave the Luhansk when Luhansk was already Ukrainian troops?
It’s difficult to say. This seems to have Matios to ask — he is obliged to investigate. But if captured, yeah where I sit, I first went to this RSA. I would like to see how I would not go to the head of the SBU, the police chief and the Prosecutor. That is, in the life of every person there is a moment, which is decisive for the whole life. To Kiev there is a claim, but, perhaps, most of all claims to the local. I was told that when it was about to “storm-to storm,” that then-Deputy Prime Minister arrived and began almost to a vote to put this question to storm or not to storm the bandits captured RSA. It is gen. I was horrified to look at that person and think what really lacked willpower, character. There is a purpose, and in such cases the limits should not be. The role of personality, in fact, is incredible, and the character is either there or it is not. Mumble, intelligentsia during the war, should depart. Perhaps the biggest fault in Kiev, but the people who were there, was to show character.
— It is said that the enterprise Foundation working as if nothing had happened. Does this mean that Akhmetov saves and the occupied territories an authority and agrees with those who live there, including terrorists? Do you communicate with him?
— With Akhmetov, I spoke twice. In fact, it is the largest employer in the territory of Donetsk region. I with all the employers talking to, and approaches very simple and pragmatic: retain jobs, pay wages, pay taxes, comply with environmental requirements and then I can help in doing business in the Donbas. And do not climb into politics. You have dolazila in politics. It with all I meet, not only with Akhmetov. It is clear that where the majority of people working at his companies, he retains a serious impact, including on the city government. As for the temporarily occupied territories, it is clear that the negotiations at the level of at least management, definitely is. About 150 thousand workplaces at the enterprises, which today was re-registered on the territory controlled by the Ukrainian government, but work there. I don’t know whether they pay taxes or pay a bribe. Perhaps there would swallow anything, but when they think that 150 thousand people will remain without work and with these people to do something they caught in an impasse.
— Is it possible to hold elections in the occupied territories at the open 470 miles of the border?
— I believe that this is impossible. I talked about it with Steinmeier and Eero. I then told them that today, as somewhere in the shot, the OSCE escape. How do you return to the people, in the absence of the maintenance of public order Ukrainian police or military OSCE mission, which will take responsibility and will not escape from the first shot? How the Ukrainian party will carry out propaganda work? Who will take responsibility for the conduct of elections, for the safety of the people who want there to vote. I say, ready to go. And “are you ready with me to go there?”, I asked them. I think there are several problems: 1) a clear continuation of the reforms of the Central government and BP; 2) my personal responsibility is to accelerate the recovery and build a new infrastructure of Donbass. We have now started in the Donetsk region is creating a new class — the Ukrainian Donetsk men. Under this I have allocated 150 million hryvnia to create a small business of which there are only 7% of GDP. That is my challenge. 3) prepare the army. I think that the example of Hungary, apparently, at some point, will become the only option of resuming territorial integrity of Ukraine within the Donetsk and Lugansk region.
— As for business, the Turchinov in favor of the full blockade, and we sell coal from “DNR-LNR”. What is the decision we must make for ourselves in this part to the world we understand?
The world, sorry, to one place. They talk about our corruption, about our trade, and do want to close my eyes and forget about what is happening. None of us particularly will not help. I want to say that as such a clear, tight blockade, it is impossible to carry out so-called “LNR-DNR”. A blockade is when in the ring. Today, the border with Russia open. And in fact, it is the only blockade from Ukraine. With regard to the coal trade, there is need to find substitutes. Are we ready to abandon coal? So far I have not heard that from South Africa or from other States we can provide. Last summer, 2016, Ukraine has consumed 20% more coal than in winter 15-16 years. In this part you need to decide. If we are willing to endure, it must be a tough decision — to forbid the transition of the line of differentiation should not be called KPVV, there should be a queue of 5-10 thousands of people daily crossing the KPVV. If you do something to do. Are you ready for this? I think that it is not ready to date.
— Smuggling, drug trafficking, make the war profitable. Who could, but doesn’t want it all to stop?
I examined these processes and I don’t see strukturirovaniia this so-called contraband. Although it is not contraband. While the Cabinet did not accept resolution, there is only instructions, orders. For example, if caught the car with something, the businessman files a lawsuit, and 80% of the goods returned to the businessman. It is necessary to amend the administrative code of the item, or to accept the decision of the Cabinet. Then it will actually smuggling. Today it is half “pregnant” situation. So I don’t see that in Kiev there is a certain point where those smuggled items. It is clear that at some point, the criminals began to return to the Donbass. Some time in the Donetsk region organized criminal groups was not, but from time to time they come in. And let’s face it — there are questions about the military and among law enforcement agencies that are also doing the same. But that it was structured and was profitable in Kiev, someone from the high chiefs — I do not see this.
— How much money you give to the infrastructure?
— I said that we need $ 20 billion to build new infrastructure. To date, we have earned enough. And if you unlock the European investment Bank, together with environmental and highways it will be about 10 billion hryvnia.
— The Ministry of the ATO helps you?
— What’s that? Unfortunately, for all the time that Ministry I Minister never communicated. He was three times on the territory of Donetsk region, came with the OSCE mission, but not once did he asked to meet with me, and told me that will on the territory of Donetsk region.
— Why is it so?
I do not know. Maybe you guys don’t understand what they do.
— You was intended as head of Bureau of investigation. Would you like to lead this Agency?
— Today I have more important and more interesting to build than to “sit.” It’s an incredible thing when you build and there is a TV tower. When the bridge was built, when the children, in the mausoleum, go to the rebuilt school when you open kindergartens — do you feel that you did something.
— Are not you tired?
— No. The biggest challenge in my life. In life, it seems, need something to do, and when I manage to do all this, I’m going to assume that I life is not lived in vain.
— What struck you most during the work in the Donetsk region?
— Confusion of people who, in principle, has lost its way.
— Last book you read?
Haven’t read it, but from time to time I enjoy reading Note.
— If you had a confectionery factory in Lipetsk, you would have closed?
— Thank God, I have not.
— Are you satisfied with the information Ministry in the East?
— Wants the best.
— If elections in the East tomorrow — I would have won “the opposition bloc”?
— No. Think of the BPP.
— How many times the President was, in the Donetsk region, in 2016?
— Officially — six, with the military — three.
— The most difficult day 2016 is for you?
Is my dead friends with the 54th razvedrota, in a statement.
— Fear for your life?
— Who protects corruption in the East?
— Today, unfortunately, it is present in sufficiently serious matters, but as such it is not structured.
— If you go back into business?
After the completion of the work. As soon as you finish work and you will not see prospects in politics — certainly, Yes.
— Your dream life?
Most of all, I would like the world. In the East, really feel how important this is.
Where, in the end, more interesting — in politics or in business?
Business is his pleasure. And politics is the biggest fulfillment. In politics you never will be if they do not take bribes and not engage in corruption, the rich, but to implement their ideas, thoughts, what is in mind and in heart, probably such a chance, as in politics, not anywhere.
Three major economic or political mistakes last year?
— In the economy of an error that was not identified growth points. Not determined, due to what can grow the economy, that is, not determined by priorities. I believe that there is some error in the increase in two times the minimum wage. From a political point of view, the biggest mistake of Ukraine is the hope that Europe will continue to adhere to the rules, morals, etc. unfortunately, Europe has slipped a little to the left or right, I would say. The hope that Europe, the European policy is a pointer… European politicians with whom I have talked, say that the lack of leadership in Europe leads to the fact that there is decay.
— If you have to ask, what to expect and how to escape when hard, what would you say?
— This is family. This is the key — blood.
— Thank you, Pavel Ivanovich.