The language issue for the independence of Ukraine was a favorite “horse” almost all the key political players. Does not lose its sharpness he was even in the war.
What is actually today the “language issue” in Ukraine, restore the status of Ukrainian as the only state a number of bills that have been adopted or should be soon voted on in Parliament, about the death threats and accusations of provocation in an interview with “Apostrophe” said one of the most famous defenders of the Ukrainian language, children’s writer and public activist Larisa Nicoi.
Apostrophe: Larissa, not so long ago in an interview with my colleagues you have shared your feelings over the last three years MPs have complied with the unspoken command, and did not touch the language issues. But recently, the topic of language, after all, was raised in the legislative field. What linked this intensification?
Larissa Nicoi: the First reason of stepping on the legislative level is the intensification of the society. The Ukrainian people have already made up my mind to build a Ukrainian Ukraine, and understands that it is necessary to begin with language. Of course, the economy is also an important aspect. However, all countries began their journey with the adoption of laws on language, determine which language will develop the state, its culture, education, economy. I do not know of such examples to other countries said, “What’s the difference what language, if only the economy worked”. The Germans said, “who cares what language, at least for the Portuguese, if only the German economy developed.” To France said, “it doesn’t matter what language, even in Persian, but the economy has grown”. To say so is nonsense.
And the Ukrainians knew it, we grow from revolution to revolution, as the child accelerates, and intensified their movement for the protection and development of the Ukrainian language. Therefore, politicians have no choice but to join this process.
Is this bad? That’s good. Phrases like “language is not a policy” — another nonsense. Language is politics! Language is a political issue number one in all countries. Without politicians we don’t take the laws in defense of the Ukrainian language, but the main thing is to have written policy and adopted legislation do in the interest, finally, the Ukrainian people, and not to please someone else. Unfortunately, at the moment I see the clumsy attempts by politicians under the high-sounding language slogans to throw Ukrainians to the bone — and the bills that, in fact, very superficial and do not solve the language problem of the Ukrainian nation. I expect that, finally, will have such political power (or will respond are already known), which will really take on the language issues and decide them in favor of Ukraine, and not the neighboring States.
– The last message on your page in Facebook are very critical regarding the draft laws on language, minorities and education. What, in your opinion, is their main danger?
The main danger lies in the fact that the Central bill among all is the bill on the protection of national minorities, and all other bills: on education, on higher education of the Ukrainian language and those that have yet to be written, on secondary education and pre — school education, they’re all on the dancer at the bill on the protection of minorities. What is the danger? That the minority on these new bills again granted unlimited rights, and indigenous people, the Ukrainians, who constitute the majority in this country, minorities have to bow, because they are the main and center in this country, and not the Ukrainian majority.
Are whether, according to your predictions, these bills are supported in the hall? How will this affect the position of the Ukrainian language? And the change of position after the vote for these draft laws in comparison with, say, the fact that Ukraine received after the adoption of the controversial “law of Kivalov-Kolesnichenko”?
The draft laws on language, and four of them was similar, does not receive the necessary number of votes because they will all be sprayed between the bills and neither will score 226 votes required. There is an opinion that the fourth bill is the total from the previous three. Because as stated by the authors that it is one common. This is as true as the fact that the bill 5670 — public. Public bill wrote the policy, and the word “public” added to the Ukrainians to cause him to trust. Of course, the public there were discussing something, but he wrote a policy of “Samopomich”, Irina Podolyak and lawyer of “Samopomich” Oksana Regalo. Sure they are not. There are very competent philological momentum, which is harmful for the Ukrainian nation becomes understandable only when analyzed by other philologists. Now, regarding the myth about the total bill, that fourth. He in common with the three previous bills, but only two. A third bill, BPP the company has not taken and wrote the total without them. So, how do you think the “General” bill, BPP will vote? Did something change in those laws, will make some movement to some of the bills down or something.
– Despite the General euphoria about the introduction of quotas on using the Ukrainian language on TV, after the enactment of the law you called it shameful. What is this assessment, and why do you think that this bill will not give the expected results? How would you propose to solve the issue with the dominance of the Russian language in the information space?
Yes. I criticize the act, 75% of the Ukrainian language on television. Representatives of the “Russian world” saying: “This Nicoi against minorities”. It’s not true. I am for harmonious coexistence. However, this law is yet another hoax. They once again deceived Ukrainians. Not only that, in other countries, all TV and radio 100% in the state language, with the exception of foreign songs. Well, it took bezviz, now the Ukrainians will run through Europe and see for yourself how other countries cherish their own language. So, this law stated 75% is a bubble. Take a calculator and the text of the law. First, 75% for not days, not 24 hours, but only the time interval from 7.00 to 22.00, which is 15 hours. 75% of 15 hours is 11 hours and 25 minutes. But these 11 hours and 25 minutes is not a pure Ukrainian language, because this law has such small fad, which States: the Ukrainian content included in the non-Ukrainian (read — Russian) language conversations of the experts in the Studio, speeches of politicians, the comments of participants in the events and stories of participants in the events, and the like. This includes all subtitrovannoy Russian films made before 1991. Let’s get to these Russian conversations in the Ukrainian content hours three and a half per day. I think there will be more, but yet let it be three and a half. 11,25 — 3,25 = 8. Eight hours a day of the Ukrainian language. And 8 hours is the third part of the day, and not 75%.
I propose to introduce quotas on the tongue, and the waves. Not to multiply and not to legitimize the language of schizophrenia, when in the Studio, speak different languages, this world is nowhere, it is necessary to introduce a 100% state language, and minorities may have their own channels, but depending on what the percentage of minorities in Ukraine. Because I honestly can not understand why this proportion is taken — 75% of Ukrainian and 25% for minority languages. And local channels as much as 40% for minorities. What is the reason? We have a mono-ethnic state. We do not have 25% minority in the country. I’m not talking about 40 or 50%. Whence then such interest non-state language on television?
– Many, mostly Russian-speaking citizens at the time were so frightened by the idea of implementing “language patrols” and penalties for disregard of Ukrainian language. Do you really need to move from trying to “soft Ukrainization” for tougher defending state language? How hard should be in this respect the policy of the state?
And all Russian-speaking is always scary. In all the countries. Only in all countries they are either integrated into society and learn the language of the country in which you live, or leave. Find a Russian, who lives in the Czech Republic and does not know the Czech language, and even oppose him! Find a Russian in Italy, England, Germany, and other countries who oppose the language of the country in which you live. There is no such. All are taught the state language. And all the police following this rule. And only in Ukraine Russian swing right and alters the country for themselves and their unwillingness and hatred of the state language.
We do not invent a Bicycle in the form of fines and language inspectorates. It’s been working in other countries, and we also have to introduce this rule. And the penalties and inspections — it is just soft Ukrainization. There is a law — enforced. Do not comply? Kindly get a penalty and think on how to comply. What is hard Ukrainization? If there were batons of the police or jail, I’m not talking about the camps and executions, which were applied to Ukrainians Russia — that would be “hard” Ukrainization. And the penalty and inspector — agree that it is a very affectionate response to past events. And it’s a gentle introduction to the language of the order today.
– Who benefits inflate the language issue and cause a split in society about this? Who ever’s fault that the question for our society is so irritating?
In the negative situation around the language to blame for our excessive tolerance, or rather the Ukrainian spineless spineless guilty, and guilty of a deliberate policy to freeze the existing discriminatory status of the state language, and, consequently, the continuation of Russification. Take the recent laws on language, education, quotas on TV. These laws insufficiently protect Ukrainians in Ukraine. Take the recent statements of Poland, Romania and Hungary in the European Parliament that we don’t have the right to make language laws — is also a deliberate policy on newselena Ukrainian factor. Although in those countries, such laws have long been accepted. And that our government has somehow responded to these attacks? Did not answer. And it is the policy of inferiority. And the conflict in the country is inflated inside the Russian-speaking and Russian-speaking split the country. It’s them against the Ukrainian language, it’s them against the strengthening in Ukraine of the Ukrainian positions. They scream and split.
– You are often criticized for being too emotional response to certain stimuli, such as the refusal of the cashier to communicate in Ukrainian or the notorious fish on the walls “Okhmatdet.” I do not regret that in those cases which have become widely known, behave this way and not otherwise? Can you call yourself a tolerant person?
I don’t think your reaction is too emotional. It’s so Russian-speaking inflated. And the media, because they are also predominantly Russian-speaking. Take the story of “Okhmatdet” (in the summer of 2016 — “Apostrophe”). The artist drew on the walls of fish. I fish praised, I liked them, but asked their Russian names to ascribe on the wall and even the names in the Ukrainian language. Fish Praskovia to sign and Paraska. And so with all the names. I’m motivated by the fact that it is a public hospital, and there treated kids from all over Ukraine, not only Russian. It was a friendly correspondence. Can show screenshots. The polite request. The artist refused to write Ukrainian names. Then I said that Russian there is not the same. I wrote an open letter in the network Facebook, the acting Minister of health Ulyana Suprun with a request to influence the situation. And urged Ukrainians to sign the letter. Tell me, where is the emotion? Where excessive emotion? As usual at work. But the hysteria fanned and emotions all over the country added to the media.
It was the same with the cashier. Accuse me of intolerance. So can anyone anything to blame. The story out of context. Thirty years I ask in stores to serve me in the Ukrainian language. Thirty years I, “intolerant”, politely ask to serve me in Ukrainian, and when the 31-year four times asked the same cashier to serve me in the Ukrainian language, do not stand up and sweeping away from the counter change on the ground, of course, sweeping away not down and in the direction of the cashier, what do I get? I get from the same media hysteria, which I am not the victim of thirty years of discrimination, and the victim is the one who got me discriminare, cashier.
– What would you say to those who are in your position and activities you criticize — sometimes even accused of lying or of intentional inflating of scandals?
I always ask my opponents: where is the evidence of my lies? If I’m lying, show the proof. Because there is only accusations. Because the lies of the opponents I have proof. I never accused unfounded, for example, put in Facebook for the world to see what the opponents say in their speeches and that they slowly write the laws. And these are two huge differences between what they say and what they write. The bills they shoved the Ukrainians shit in a different wrapper. And when I warned the Ukrainians: “the People in the shiny wrapper shit,” I say to the opponents, so I don’t have inflated scandal. And I don’t exaggerate! People carefully unwound the wrapper, see what they had prepared — so begins a funny story… So my fault or whoever in the wrapper wraps the shit and shoved it back to the Ukrainians?
– How often do you threaten? That “promise” is most often? What makes you still not stop?
— Threaten often. Most often, sexual assault and murder. To stay? I can stop. It is very easy to do. Take sane laws that will finally protect Ukrainians, not the neighbors, take sane ukrainotsentrichnaya laws and all, I’m in the garden among the trees and flowers write tales for kids.
One of the claims you impute — that divide society language issue during the war is impossible, it will only alienate Ukraine from the East and South of our state. What will you say?
— We have, as always, everything on the head. Imagine a German who requires in Germany, the German language, and he said that he did not split Germany? Represent the Italian, who requires the Italian language, and he said: do not ask an Italian, because it splits the country? Agree that it is a delusion. Now by analogy, imagine a Ukrainian who asks the Ukrainian language, and he is accused of schism. Who accuses? Those who are against the Ukrainian language. So it just divides those who are against, not the Ukrainians! It would alienate from us the South and East? And they have not yet pushed? Not held “referendums”? Said that want in Russia? And we are to them and continue with their buns, arms and bows. Ukrainians should finally begin to build Ukraine. Like all the Nations. And we must begin with the language as all peoples, all countries. Language holds. Where protected and stable position of the state language — there is a strong state. Don’t believe? Check. War and language is the cause and effect.
– What for you is the main criteria of Ukrainian patriotism? Whether, in your opinion, the Ukrainian patriot to speak Russian? The number of Russian speakers in ATO fairly high, though less than the 80%, which begins to speak during each surge of hype around the language issue.
— If it is Ukrainian patriot — he loves the Ukrainian language. If it’s a Ukrainian patriot, he will never say that the Ukrainian language divides society, the Ukrainian language is not necessary, or whatever, in what language. As never say a patriot of the Czech Republic that don’t need the Czech language, as never say a patriot of England, which do not need the English language as never tell a patriot that don’t need Russian language. Can the Ukrainian patriot to speak the Russian language? I guess she could. But will never speak out against the Ukrainian.
– Can you name at least some positive developments in the protection and development of the Ukrainian language for the years of independence? Or for the last three years?
Over the years of independence, us and the language was trying to destroy. At first unnoticed. Quietly, the TV was almost all in Russian. Imperceptibly almost all the Newspapers on the layouts of steel in Russian. Unnoticed — all the magazines in Russian language. Unnoticed in many schools, and where there is introduced the study of Russian language. Unnoticed as it happens, because statistically the number of schools with the Russian language decreases, but imperceptibly more and more young waiters who say that they can’t serve in the Ukrainian language, Ukrainian because they do not know the language, as the indigenous people of Kiev.
Noticeable was adopted antitegula “the law of Kivalov-Kolesnichenko”, but quietly spread throughout Ukraine creeping Russification and disrespect to the Ukrainian language as the state language. Unbeknownst to Ukraine in 1999 was made a key and very important decision that tuition at public institutions of Ukraine must be in Ukrainian only, but for some reason the legislators did not notice, they continue to rubber stamp the laws on education, language, minority — and everywhere in these laws prescribe training in minority languages. And in accordance with the same decision of the constitutional court, the minority language can be studied, not to conduct the educational process. Moreover, this study is optional. That’s not to notice our legislators and high officials of this decision of the constitutional court, even cry. The Minister (of education and science Liliya — “Apostrophe”) Grinevich talks about the training of specialists in minority languages. The Board of education lie behind it voted unanimously instead to spend the money to know the state language. Unbeknownst to all Ukrainians soon all the specialists speak in the languages of minorities, not the government.
Notable was Russification with the arrival of launchers “Grad”. Notable were the statements of national minorities: “You, Ukrainians, do not need Ukrainian”, “Ukrainians, what do you care what language” and the like. Notable was the identity of Ukrainians: language is important. The Ukrainian language in Ukraine and the extension of its influence is overarching. And this realization pleases.
