Nasz Dziennik: there was another incident with the desecration of Polish monuments: in the village of Pidkamin in Lviv, where the attack was subjected to a monument to the Polish professors executed in 1941 by the Nazis. What is the purpose of such actions?
Zapalovsky Andrzej (Andrzej Zapałowski): I personally continue to believe that this is inconsistent between the actions of nationalist groups. In the unfolding in the East the war, nothing significant happens. Meanwhile, the circles of the nationalists, seeing that the West has increased the pressure on Kiev, urging him to give Donbass more autonomy, have organized an economic blockade of the region and the border crossings with Russia. All the evidence suggests that they seek confrontation with the Central government. Some of these people at the same time search for enemies in the Western Ukraine. These enemies are there poles and Hungarians.
– Incidents of the kind we saw in Huta penyatskoy, at the cemetery in Bykivnia, the Polish Consulate in Lviv. This is advantageous to preheat the mood?
The events you listed, all is not limited. To this set of anti-Polish actions should be added the denunciations of Polish professors in Lviv in security. Them accuse that they organize in the city harcerska cells (harcerstwo — Polish analogue of the scout movement — approx. TRANS.) and revive the Union “Warsaw” (Patriotic military-sports organization — approx. TRANS.). We can say that some of the Polish activists were persecuted by the leadership of this region. The question is, why is this happening now, and why the target was just poles. It is a national minority, which is the last state of the European Union, which still fully supports the Ukrainians. I think the attacks are related to what the Chairman of the party “law and Justice” (PiS) Jaroslaw Kaczynski (Jarosław Kaczyński) has given the UPA (banned in Russia organization — approx. ed.) a clear assessment.
– Repeats the same scenario: red paint, the letters SS and the inscription “death to the poles”. This is an indication of the authors or an attempt to throw him off the scent?
— I do not get tired to repeat, what to look for one potential criminal is meaningless. The desecration of monuments in Western Ukraine could be the handiwork of the same group, and in Bykivnia another. In Lviv, the rally was held the representatives of the nationalist youth, which is becoming more and more there. I think it will not end. After some time criminals surely to show up.
– A strong protest from the Polish authorities was not followed. Why Warsaw behaves passively, and does it not encourage supporters of the UPA to continue to honor the memory of criminals?
— In the press and on the Internet in Ukraine is unfolding discussion of the role of Bandera in the public space, taking the form of a reflection on historical themes. It also penetrates into other areas. The lack of response from the Warsaw leads, in particular, to the fact that these actions go to the level of persecution of the poles. Warsaw further compromises the position of Ambassador of Poland in Ukraine Jan Inferno (Jan Piekło), which declares that the destruction and desecration of Polish characters are the Russians. Ukrainians conclude: just all hang in Russian, you can destroy them further. Our diplomats time to abandon this approach because it is hurting our country.
Ukrainians regained blow up the monument in Huta penyatskoy, but in return they want the restoration of the illegally established monument dedicated to the OUN-UPA in the village Krusovice and in the vicinity of the village of Werchrata. So goodwill and the restoration of the Polish monument was just a trick?
— I suspect that all these actions are conceived and orchestrated in such a way as to achieve the restoration of monuments in Poland. But one thing — a monument to the victims and the other criminals. In Ukraine, destroying the monuments to the victims, and in Poland demolished illegally erected monuments to the executioners. This is the fundamental difference. UPA killed poles in the same way as the Gestapo, the SS or NKVD. To erect monuments to its members is to erect monuments of the NKVD or the SS. Monuments should be placed only where there are graves. In the case of criminals, you can only specify the personal data, nothing more, about the erection of monuments should not be no speech.
– Deputies of the Lviv regional Council appealed to the highest authorities to hold the celebrations dedicated to the 75th anniversary of the UPA, at the Central level. This initiative is a response to the demands of society or something else?
— Look what happens: in such a difficult situation, which turned out to be the Ukrainian state, one of the regions tends to exacerbate the already deep divisions that exist in Ukrainian society. In Kiev, about 30% of the population is Russian, in the East of the state there are more of them. Lviv deputies want to strengthen the legacy that at the time of creation of the UPA in the next two years of war was due to the cooperation with Germany.
– In Ukraine, awakened nationalist sentiment, and the Polish Senate, in order not to spoil relations with neighbours, refuses to amend the law banning propaganda of communism and other totalitarian regimes, in particular, of Ukrainian nationalism. You understand why this is happening?
— The position of the Senate is incomprehensible to me alone. The poles fought with the Germans, Lithuanian and Ukrainian nationalists were then on the other side of the fence. This law was directed against the objects that perpetuated the memory of events related to the promotion of German Nazism.
– Who benefits from such political correctness amid intensifying in Ukrainian society of neobanderizm. When to talk about it, how about now?
— Part of the Polish elites had a weird belief that the Polish government is interested in supporting Ukrainian nationalism, but is not interested in establishing good relations with other political forces in Ukraine. That is, we focus on the marginal political circles. Because of this dogmatism we will not be able in the future to realize its interests in this area. Our elites, judging by this approach, I believe that Ukraine will win nationalism. But it is an empty fiction. If he wins, just to the West of the country, which in any case will cooperate with Poland.
– Which direction is East and the first Ukrainian policy of our foreign office?
— The policy of the Polish Ministry of foreign Affairs serving in the region key interests of the United States, not Poland. Please note that Slovakia, Hungary, Romania are in NATO and the EU, but their policy seems much more reasonable than ours. Of course, they fulfill their obligations as an ally, but only in the case when they coincide with their own interests in Ukraine. In international bodies, which deal with the Ukrainian problem, Poland, pushed into the background, but we continue to behave as if playing the role of a world leader in the struggle for influence in this state.
– How and at what level should interact with the state, which considers one of the pillars of Ukrainian independence by OUN-UPA on the conscience of which the crimes against the Polish nation?
— With Western Ukraine should cooperate only to the extent necessary to protect our economic interests. And focus Poland (including the Polish local self-government bodies) should be in the Central and southern parts of the country. Lviv, Ternopil and Ivano-Frankivsk regional councils for such cooperation to attract is not worth it as long as they don’t stop to promote extreme nationalism. Now we send to these regions signals that everything is in order. But this is a mistake.
– Thank you for the interview.