“112”: “Gordon”, and my guest today is a former resident of the Soviet GRU in Geneva, the famous writer Viktor Suvorov. Good evening. In 1978 you GRU officer in Geneva, fled to Britain and became a world-famous writer. At work in the intelligence miss it?
Viktor Suvorov: Writing and intelligence is related professions. Historian — this scout past. I would continue working. Not bored, no.
— When you was an active scout, you could recruit anyone?
— In any case.It’s very hard work.One recruitment is already very great achievement. In GRU there was an unspoken rule: recruited someone- “the person”. If you do not recruit anyone, the person shall not be considered.
— All these years, materials for books supplies you British intelligence?
— Why? The fact that all the materials I stuffed my books — it is open source. Why British intelligence to provide me the memoirs of Zhukov? All of this is open and accessible to every rational person who can read. Here were conducted the poll, who is the greatest politician of the twentieth century. The British say that Churchill. And if you open my books, it says that he is a big fool. Stalin did whatever he wanted with the British and American leaders. He is a criminal, and they either did not understand or danced to his tune. So what I write is against the official British version of the war. That they don’t like it.
— When it is necessary to celebrate Victory Day, and what’s the occasion?
— I have a book “Shadow of victory”. I do not believe that there was some kind of victory. Look at Germany now, and look at how the lives of simple people in Russia, Ukraine. I think the Germans have now more reason to celebrate this day as a victory. It’s a great European power, and we are a little behind them. I believe that the victory was not, and victory day is not celebrated.
In the book “Icebreaker” you’ve substantiated with facts and figures that Stalin wanted to attack Hitler and Hitler just beat him to it, but the smartest people with whom I spoke say that this is nonsense.
My life motto — never argue. Those who have read my books, you may agree with me that I will not impose my opinion. Normal, intelligent people who read the book agree with me. I will not impose their opinion, never make conclusions. I just present the facts.
— It turns out that Hitler, Stalin outsmarted?
— Not outsmarted and outperformed. The idea was that Stalin, that Hitler crushed Europe and went on to fight in the British Isles and to Africa, where he actually fought. In the meantime 11 European countries waiting for the release. Is the “liberator”, which from 24 to 26 thousand tanks. Hitler — 3 thousand obsolete and us — 24. Hitler leaves the continent to the UK. So how do you take advantage of this situation! And people ask: well, come on, America. In April 1941, Iran began the construction of plants for the Assembly of military vehicles for the Soviet Union. Americans supported it all.
— This explains that Stalin for three days disappeared from the Kremlin, and his colleagues came to him to ask to lead the resistance against Hitler, and he thought they had come to arrest him.
— Stalin believed that the war was lost (and he believed correctly, and I think so). The whole life of Stalin is the first seizure of power, consolidation of power, and then collectivization, to snatch the bread of man for free and drive it over the border to build military factories. Industrialization — for the production of tanks. Most tanks, planes built comrade. More than any country in the world. The most powerful submarine fleet. When no Hitler was not yet, Stalin created such a monstrous machine only to the hands of Hitler overwhelm Europe and then stab in the back Hitler. When all this failed, Stalin was in a situation when he realized that his dream is broken: he lost his life, lost the war.
You said that Stalin and Hitler are “twins-brothers”. Why?
They both have built socialism. One party, the other — in prison. Stalin — the GULAG, the Hitler — Buchenwald. NKVD — SS. Stalin and Hitler — red flags. Both have a mustache. Only Stalin was a bit smarter Hitler.
— In your opinion, Stalin was a great?
— Yes, he is a great man. In addition he was endowed with a wonderful sense of humor. For me to face Stalin — it’s like watching a tiger in a cage. For me he is a great criminal, but, of course, the greatest statesman. I in their books that person admire.
— Zhukov really was a great Marshal and commander?
— This is a very dangerous myth. Zhukov commander was never. Stalin was the division of labor. The thinking was the USSR Marshal Vasilevsky, who made all the plans, cooking all of it. Zhukov is the one who is worn on the fronts and implements the plans that someone created. Pushing mass death to execute someone made a plan. Zhukov himself guilty of the most terrible military disaster in the world. Stalin made him chief of the General staff 13.02.1941, he is preparing war plans. Then burst into the worst disaster in military history — a number of tanks, 4 million people fell into German captivity. And the General staff is the brain of the army, and beetles — head. Who said he is a great leader, if his fault has occurred, such a fierce disaster?
— Putin said that the Soviet Union would have won the Germans without Ukraine. Without the US and the UK too?
— This is nonsense, which is quite impossible to comment. America — 400 thousand cars. The Soviet Union produces tanks, and cars, in principle, does not produce. America, knowing about the plans of Stalin, was ready to help him including 100 thousand “Studebaker” — the best military machine in the world — free gives them. The tank should be the vehicles carrying diesel fuel for it, parts should go to the infantry, should follow the artillery. And the main Transporter of artillery is American “Studebaker”. Without 400 thousand American cars victory would have been categorically impossible. And the fact that without the Ukrainians would be defeated — it is a great folly.
— Russia is a country of myths?
Yes. Victory in the so-called second world war is not to win. The country had suffered such losses that still falls in a demographic hole. And where is this “great victorious” country, the USSR? The Soviet Union no, he crumbled.
— Is it possible the reconciliation of veterans of the Second world veterans of the UPA (of extremist and banned in Russia organization — approx. ed.)?
— Absolutely not! And deal with this nonsense not necessary.
— What would you say to the people who are nostalgic for the USSR?
We’re with you remember the time when we were told about a brighter tomorrow. I — guards officer, received the 185 rubles — a lot of money. I spend with his soldiers classes, but I have no hours. The money is there, but no watch. Who lived there, can not imagine. Then we were told “bright future”, and now — “bright past”.
— What future for Russia?
— Decay. The far East is now fully Chinese. They are in the TRANS already. But the Moscow government supports this occupation. If they once got there, they never leave. Was a great socialist camp, and it crumbled, the Soviet Union crumbled. This is a trend. After the collapse of the socialist camp, the Soviet Union has done nothing to stop the collapse. The collapse continues.
— Why Russia does not like the West, despite the fact that Russian leaders enjoy all the benefits of the “accursed” Western civilization?
In London are the best areas fully occupied by the people who currently govern Russia. Two of the most powerful yachts in the world belong to Russian oligarchs. They are very “bad.” They have long been ready suitcases, in order to escape.
— The coming to power of the trump — a plus for Ukraine or for Russia?
— I would because the question was not put. Ukraine has enormous potential and could become a great power class of Germany, France (territory, population, scientific, agricultural potential). So why look overseas, if we know that Ukraine could be self-reliant and prosperous state. Let’s solve their problems themselves.
— The West is afraid of Putin?
— In any case. There is only one thing for which the West is so cautious about Russia — nuclear power. But nuclear power is a bluff. Enough information on what strategic missiles are armed with Russia. After all, they are all made in Ukraine, and their term long ago expired.
You said that Putin is a walking political corpse. Is that so?
— That’s it. Most recently, his entourage quietly went to the West, and now — the personal sanctions against them. And at any moment each of them may lose their billions. The Golden snuff-box in Russian history played a key role, and I think she will play the role. Now the presence of Putin in power doesn’t benefit anyone — neither the workers nor the drivers.
— A military-industrial complex?
— MIC all the dying and is in the same crisis as everyone else. I recently saw a satellite image of the Stalingrad tractor plant. He is now worse than it looked in the spring of 43rd year. Everything is pillaged, destroyed everything. They are building a fighter, but I can’t do something. Built tank, released 10 pieces for parade, and one stalled. If everything collapses, collapses if science, education, the military-industrial complex to thrive cannot.
— And what will happen with Putin?
— A future he’s got the darkest. The man who went into power, there is no turning back. There is a meat grinder. The one who will come after Putin will have all the problems fell on him. In order to survive, the new rulers will have to punish Putin pointedly. As the Libyan leader, as Ceausescu.
— What will happen with Syria and with North Korea?
They will slowly degrade until it’s over. Now North Korea people for a few centimeters lower than in the South, from malnutrition for several generations. And that should lead to the collapse of the system. They can’t be peaceful.
— What is happening today in Ukraine, in the opinion of the UK?
During the last decades we have witnessed the disasters which have swept across Europe, especially Central. If there was a complete change of the ruling class, these countries have embarked on the right path. I see absolutely relentless progress up in Poland. People just have to live well. And in those countries where the ruling class was not replaced, there is stagnation. And the most striking example is Ukraine. People out, is death, shed his blood, and then something changes, but not as quickly as we would like. I wish my Ukraine with such potential, with such people, which has always been free in the shower. The slave can be given the freedom and money, but it will still be a serf, a slave. Ukrainian, even barefoot, was always free. Even under serfdom, he remained free. And I’m sorry that these changes don’t happen overnight.
Agents of the GRU, FSB of the Russian Federation in Ukraine today much?
— A lot.
— And what to do with them?
— I not the adviser of the great Ukrainian people in this matter. He must decide what to do with them.
— Crimea and the Donbass, Ukraine needs?
— They are necessary. But if people did not wish to be with Ukraine, then you need a little patience. Germany was divided. Ever have a reunion, but if the people of Donbass himself eager to Ukraine, can not be forced. And the same thing with Crimea.
— Who among the Ukrainian politicians today do you like?
— A number of deputies asked Poroshenko to assign you the title of Hero of Ukraine. How you feel about it?
It was a great honor, and I would take that as the highest award. Recently I received a Free Chechnya order, the highest award of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. It’s not the Chechens, who like Putin and fight for him. I’m glad someone appreciates my contribution.
— Have you seen your mother after you ran away?
Yes. When the Soviet Union fell, the mother and father were with me.
— In Russia you twice sentenced to death. After the murder of Litvinenko in the UK there is no threat to you?
— The threat always exists. Litvinenko lived openly, with an open mind, and I take measures of protection. On the other hand, I would have thought death from the killer’s hands from the other side somehow, even maybe happiness, because it would be proof that I’m right that they are afraid of my books.
— Ukraine is your homeland. Home does not pull?
— I live in Ukraine, but every morning I Wake up in Bristol. This is my home, Yes.
— Thank you very much.
— Glory To Ukraine!
— Glory to the heroes!